Subject: Re: CLISP on the Mac

From: haible (Bruno Haible)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 20:52:27 +0100

Jeff Bishop <[email-masked]> :

> Has anyone tried building binaries for the Mac?  Is it possible,
> or are there some mutual incompatibilities?

Marcus Daniels <[email-masked]> :

> CLISP GPL status makes me feel like that isn't be something I should
> be considering.

Why? I don't see any relation between the GPL and Apple or Mac or MacOS.

We shouldn't discriminate any computer users just because of the brand
of computers or software they use. Perhaps they didn't even buy them
themselves, it may be the standard equipment they have to use.

Furthermore, I haven't had any negative experience with Apple. They even
sent me their Dylan manual without fee :-)
Did you have problems with Apple, Brent?

> However, there is A/UX support already.  I'll help where I can on 
> supporting that.

Thank you, Marcus.

> This, and given the quality of MCL and XLISPSTAT for Macs, it's hard to
> see a motivation for a port.
> Macintosh would be among the harder O.S.'s to port to.

But if someone is doing the port, he should be welcome. But apparently
less Apple Mac users are inclined to do programming work themselves.
Only one out of five who asked me about porting CLISP to the Mac indeed
took a look at the source. But he won't finish it: he is now porting Linux
to the Mac :-)

Just my personal opinion.

Bruno

---

From: Aaron Neerenberg <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:08:16 -0800 (PST)

Has anyone had much success on this platform?

	I keep getting the following:

<calvin coolidge 248$>make
./lisp.run -m 750KW -x "(load \"init.lsp\") (sys::%saveinitmem) (exit)"
Cannot allocate private shared memory segment. errno = 22
./lisp.run: Not enough memory for Lisp.
*** Error code 1
Make: .  Stop.
<calvin coolidge 249$>lisp.run
Cannot allocate private shared memory segment. errno = 22
lisp.run: Not enough memory for Lisp.
<calvin coolidge 250$>

	any thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated

	-aaron neerenberg

---

From: [email-masked] (Brent Benson)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 15:15:48 -0500

# Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 20:53:28 +0100
# From: [email-masked] (Bruno Haible)
# 
# Furthermore, I haven't had any negative experience with Apple. They even
# sent me their Dylan manual without fee :-)
# Did you have problems with Apple, Brent?
# 

I dislike Apple's policy as it relates to user interface copyright and
related litigation.  On the other hand, they have some great products
(like Macintosh Common Lisp) and I like the direction they're going as
far as far as the Dylan programming langauge is concerned.

As I was developing Marlais (an interpreter for a subset of Dylan)
they were very open with me.  They've also given me an opportunity to
give some feedback on the language as its specification solidifies.
They people working on the Dylan design are pretty cool.  Many of them
are Lisp hackers of legendary stature (e.g., David Moon of
MIT/Symbolics fame).

;Brent

---

From: [email-masked] (Marcus Daniels)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:33:10 PST

>>>>> "Bruno" == Bruno Haible <[email-masked]> writes:

>> CLISP GPL status makes me feel like that isn't be something I
>> should be considering.

Bruno> Why? I don't see any relation between the GPL and Apple or Mac
Bruno> or MacOS.

Some FSF folks have strong feelings on the matter.  I don't have a 
strong opinion.  I didn't want to interfere with the authors' intent,
that's all!

Bruno> We shouldn't discriminate any computer users just because of
Bruno> the brand of computers or software they use. Perhaps they
Bruno> didn't even buy them themselves, it may be the standard
Bruno> equipment they have to use.

Well, boycotts are have drawbacks.  That's for sure.

>> This, and given the quality of MCL and XLISPSTAT for Macs, it's
>> hard to see a motivation for a port.  Macintosh would be among the
>> harder O.S.'s to port to.

Bruno> But if someone is doing the port, he should be welcome. But
Bruno> apparently less Apple Mac users are inclined to do programming
Bruno> work themselves.  Only one out of five who asked me about
Bruno> porting CLISP to the Mac indeed took a look at the source. But
Bruno> he won't finish it: he is now porting Linux to the Mac :-)

Jeff:  your answer!

---

From: [email-masked] (Marcus Daniels)
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:49:22 PST

>>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron Neerenberg <[email-masked]> writes:

Aaron> 	any thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated

Yes, I've compiled it.  But without shared memory.  Not ideal,
but it works.  A few other minor things.  I'm not familar with the
PTX memory map, but would be relatively easy to fix.  I'll put binaries and
the patches up as soon as I can.  I need to clean up the autoconfiguration.

Email me if you need quick fixes.

---

From: Martin Sjolin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 22:03:41 +0100

>> or are there some mutual incompatibilities?

Should not be that hard, but take some time. Preferably using "using"
gcc under MPW, apple's cc or think C.

Bruno> But if someone is doing the port, he should be welcome. But apparently
Bruno> less Apple Mac users are inclined to do programming work themselves.
Bruno> Only one out of five who asked me about porting CLISP to the Mac indeed
Bruno> took a look at the source. But he won't finish it: he is now porting Linux
Bruno> to the Mac :-)

Since I'm the individual refereed to above :-) ... I been teaching (Common) Lisp
for three years now, and i have put up the last releases of CLISP (Amiga, Atari,
PC) etc to enable the student to do some programming at home. I started in on
the mac port quite some time ago, but then the linux port (half finished now)
took a higher priority (!). A change of job further have pushed these side
activities further down the list (working with an object-centered database 
running on regular unix system (including linux) distributed under GPL), but
hopefully I should be to do some work on clisp/maclinux during this spring ...

Regards,

msj
PS. I tend to agree with Bruno,  it looks like Apple Mac User do less
    programming work themself!
--
Martin Sj\"olin                                 | e-mail: [email-masked] 
Intelligent Information Systems Laboratory      | phone : +46 13 28 24 10
Department of Computer and Information Science  | fax   : +46 13 28 26 66
University of Link\"oping, S-581 83 Link\"oping, SWEDEN